Indirect Game vs. Direkt Game Melde Dich an, um diesen Inhalt zu abonnieren 3 3

[Sunnycityallstar 2]

Hallo werte Pickup Community,

hier kommt jetzt mal eine elementare Grundsatzfrage. Da sind eure Meinungen und Erfahrungen gefragt.

Die Fragen die sich mir stellen:

Was ist besser ( führt eher zum Erfolg)`?

Kann man das überhaupt so sagen/differenzieren`?

Was würdet ihr einem PU-Beginner raten`?

Beim Indirekt Game sehe ich ein Problem dahin gehend, dass ich immer über die Hintertür gehe. Das heißt ich fang ein Gespräch an, mit irgendwas das so trivial ist, das keiner denken könnte es wäre eine "Anmache". Aber dann seh ich halt ein Problem dem Opfer dann doch klar zu machen, wohin die Reise wirklich gehen soll. Da hab ich so das Bedenken, dass es vielleicht gekünstelt/ verstellt wirkt und man eventutell als schleimig und manipulativ empfunden wird.

Bei Direkt Game seh ich die Gefahr, das man zu forsch und konfrontativ an die Sache geht. Deshalb eventuell als zu aufdringliche / frech empfunden wird.

Wobei mir, dass von Prinzip erstmal besser gefallen würde. Wenn ich von jemandem attracted bin, dann kann ich das doch auch direkt komunizieren. Nach dem Motto:

Hey, du hast ein sympathisches lächeln, aber bist du auch interessant ?

(oder doch lieber nicht`?`?)

Ist die ganze Sache eher eine Frage des Innergames, nach dem Motto wenn schüchtern dann Indirekt, wenn Selbstbewusst dann Direkt (eine Frage der Kongruenz) oder liegt die Wahrheit bei den Girls selbst, die man approched`?

"Erkenntbnis: Frauen mit schwachem Selbstwertgefühlt können mit spielerischen Beleidigungen nicht umgehen°! ( Neggs und Dämpfer) Tolle, schöne Frauen wittern hingegen die Herausforderung. Der Graben der Attraktivität führt durch diesen Unterschied."

Also lautet das Schema wenn Sie ein schwaches Selbstwertgefühl hat, dann Indirekt und bei nem starken Selbstwertgefühl Direkt`?`?`?

Da ich sinnlose Fehler und unnötige Fehlversuche vermeiden möchte, bin ich an euer Sicht der Dinge interessiert. An Erfahrungen und Tips. Wie geht ihr persönlich vor`? Wie habt ihr angefangen`? Direkt/Indirekt`? Warum`? Was würdet ihr in der einen oder anderen Situation anders machen, als wie ihr es gemacht habt. Was waren Erfolgmomente und -strategien`?

Hier geht es wirklich mal um eine Diskussion. Also diskutiert fleißig mit und kramt die eine oder andere Story aus dem Hinterstübchen hervor.

greetz sunny

[Deinde roof 2]

ui, die Frage is schon ziemlich alt und is sicher auch schon oft beantwortet worden, aber ich bin zu faul das rauszusuchen.

Das hängt von dir persönlich ab. Ich würd beides ausprobiern, weil das wirklich eine Frage des Typs ist. Hinter Indirect steckt, so wie ich das sehe, definitiv mehr Technik. Wenn du Indirect beginnst, musst du demnach auch Techniken wie Negs, DHVs, Routinen, Amogging, Befrienden, Bodyrocking lernen, um wirklich gut zu werden. Wenn du direct Game fahren willst, musst du viel Inner Game trainieren. Da gehts darum selbstbewußt rüberzukommen und voll auf Alpha zu machen.

Ich kann dir wirklich nur den Tipp geben beides auszuprobieren, du merkst eh schnell was dir besser gefällt, bzw. womit du mehr Erfolg hast. AUßerdem kannst du beides machen. Ich mach manchmal direct und manchmal indirect, wobei ich merke, dass ich mit direct nicht so gut ankomme. Dafür fehlt mir das Alphaverhalten noch.

lg Deinde roof

[UnReal 3]

Hallo werte Pickup Community,

hier kommt jetzt mal eine elementare Grundsatzfrage. Da sind eure Meinungen und Erfahrungen gefragt.

Die Fragen die sich mir stellen:

Was ist besser ( führt eher zum Erfolg)`?

Kann man das überhaupt so sagen/differenzieren`?

Was würdet ihr einem PU-Beginner raten`?

Kann man nicht differenzieren. Alles hat seine Vor und Nachteile und es geht nicht um die Technik an sich, sondern um das gesamte Mindset und den gesamten Lebensstil. Es eignet sich beides für den Anfang, wobei direct wohl schwerer ist, weil es wie gesagt um das gesamte Mindset geht und wenn man vorher kaum mit Frauen zu tun hatte, wird es schwer, sowas kongruent rüberzubringen.

Beim Indirekt Game sehe ich ein Problem dahin gehend, dass ich immer über die Hintertür gehe. Das heißt ich fang ein Gespräch an, mit irgendwas das so trivial ist, das keiner denken könnte es wäre eine "Anmache". Aber dann seh ich halt ein Problem dem Opfer dann doch klar zu machen, wohin die Reise wirklich gehen soll. Da hab ich so das Bedenken, dass es vielleicht gekünstelt/ verstellt wirkt und man eventutell als schleimig und manipulativ empfunden wird.

Frauen sind nicht blöd. Sobald sie sich 5 Minuten unterhält, nachdem du eigentlich nur wissen wolltest, wo es zum Bahnhof geht, weiß sie selber, worauf das ganze hinausläuft. Also kannst du im Prinzip auch gleich direct öffnen. Die Hemmschwelle ist aber gerade für Beginner viel viel größer. Ein Vorteil von Indirect ist hier auch, dass die Frau mehr Zeit hat sich an dich zu gewöhnen. Manche Frauen reagieren negativ auf direct, weil sie einfach zu sehr überrumpelt und überfordert sind, obwohl sie dich eigentlich ganz sympathisch finden.

Bei Direkt Game seh ich die Gefahr, das man zu forsch und konfrontativ an die Sache geht. Deshalb eventuell als zu aufdringliche / frech empfunden wird.

Mach dir nicht so viele Gedanken. Es ist scheißegal was die Frau denkt. Zieh dein Ding einfach durch. Du wirst dann ja sehen, wie es ankommt.

Wobei mir, dass von Prinzip erstmal besser gefallen würde. Wenn ich von jemandem attracted bin, dann kann ich das doch auch direkt komunizieren. Nach dem Motto:

Hey, du hast ein sympathisches lächeln, aber bist du auch interessant ?

(oder doch lieber nicht`?`?)

Doch! Tu genau das. Wovon du überzeugt bist, das kannst du logischerweise auch am kongruentesten rüberbringen. Und dieser Spruch eignet sich richtig rübergebracht auch hervorragend als Opener.

Ist die ganze Sache eher eine Frage des Innergames, nach dem Motto wenn schüchtern dann Indirekt, wenn Selbstbewusst dann Direkt (eine Frage der Kongruenz) oder liegt die Wahrheit bei den Girls selbst, die man approched`?

Die Wahrheit hängt nicht von den Frauen ab, gar nichts hängt von den Frauen ab, es hängt alles nur zu 100% von dir und deinem Mindset ab!

"Erkenntbnis: Frauen mit schwachem Selbstwertgefühlt können mit spielerischen Beleidigungen nicht umgehen°! ( Neggs und Dämpfer) Tolle, schöne Frauen wittern hingegen die Herausforderung. Der Graben der Attraktivität führt durch diesen Unterschied."

Also lautet das Schema wenn Sie ein schwaches Selbstwertgefühl hat, dann Indirekt und bei nem starken Selbstwertgefühl Direkt`?`?`?

Glaub mir, Frauen mit schwachem Selbstwertgefühl willst du gar nicht haben, mögen sie noch so toll aussehen.

Da ich sinnlose Fehler und unnötige Fehlversuche vermeiden möchte, bin ich an euer Sicht der Dinge interessiert. An Erfahrungen und Tips. Wie geht ihr persönlich vor`? Wie habt ihr angefangen`? Direkt/Indirekt`? Warum`? Was würdet ihr in der einen oder anderen Situation anders machen, als wie ihr es gemacht habt. Was waren Erfolgmomente und -strategien`?

Um Fehler und Fehlversuche wirst du NIE herumkommen. Glaub mir, du wirst so oft in die Scheisse tappen, bis du förmlich drin badest. Aber das ist auch richtig so und es geht nicht anders. Nur aus Fehlern lernt man. Und denk nicht, je mehr du dich mit der Theorie beschäftigst, desto besser wirst du sein. Du wirst genau so viel Mist bauen wie auch anders, weil du Praxis brauchst um die Theorie wirklich zu verinnerlichen und entsprechend zu reagieren.

Ich habe mit indirect angefangen und mache mittlerweile fast nur noch direct. Es war mir einfach zu blöd mich hinter irgend einem auswendig gelernten Opener oder irgend ner Diskussion über sinnloses Zeug zu verstecken, wenn ich eine Frau wirklich kennenlernen wollte. Wobei ich das trotzdem immer mal wieder mach, wenn ich Lust drauf habe. Manchmal öffne ich auch indirect, plappere ein paar Sätze und mach dann gleich direct weiter.

Hier ist der beste Text, den ich dazu jemals gelesen habe, allerdings ist er Pro Direct geschrieben:

The Freedom To Exist

This article will seem like just good old plain common sense. Yet, nobody in the community is really addressing it and I know it is a problem for most men.

I know it is a problem because I teach workshop/seminars a couple of times a month and I see it first hand and it’s advice that can save you a lot of time and wasted energy.

If you are beginning your journey into the community, I’ll modestly say that this is one of the most important things you’ll read.

Some of you have goals and objectives while learning this “Game.” Others just take it one day at a time.

If you are going to set objectives in this game, make sure at the very top is the freedom to exist.

Well, what the heck does that mean?

It means if you are going to set up goals for yourself, your eventual goal is to believe so strongly in yourself that you can walk up to anyone and be comfortable.

Sounds simple, doesn’t it? And yet, it is so difficult.

This is not a goal that is achieved over night. It takes time and effort and you must work towards it. I have met and winged with some of the best of the best as far as this community is concerned, and I can tell you that even a lot of those guys haven’t achieved this.

Why is this so?

Let’s backtrack a little bit. Sometime last year, my partner, Ranko AKA Shark, started to popularize the direct “I like you opener.” He was criticized and insulted to no end and

Even when it appeared that everything he was saying was accurate, his critics never acknowledged him.

The reason for this is two fold:

A. Some guys in the community are insecure to the point that they can never give credit to anyone for they think it will diminish their guru status.

B. Some guys still do not get it!

These same critics who still do not get it, refer to “Direct game” as a tool. These critics claim that “Direct is a good tool to carry.” In fact, they refer to everything as a “Tool.”

Here is what I want you to understand:

DIRECT IS NOT ABOUT THE OPENER! IT’S ABOUT A MENTALITY!

The direct style is about a state of self-belief not often found in community PUAs regardless of how much success they have achieved.

Lacking these internal belief structure, the PUA will often resort to looking at things through a different lens. He looks at everything through the frame of techniques and tactics, henceforth completely missing the point regarding the self-belief.

I recently heard an incredibly well known PUA on this board label direct as a “Frame Control” Trick. This indicates that to this person, everything is still a technique, not an organic and natural process.

To truly not give a shit and have such a strong self-image to approach anyone is not a trick. It is not a tactic.

It comes from the power of belief and it comes from a deeper place.

It takes time to get there. It helps if you realize what it is you should be focusing on.

You go in with the mentality that “I do NOT need to resort to trickery and tactics” in order to get a chick.

I am not saying that “Tools” are bad in general. There are some tools that are useful at some point.

However, to be able to just be present and a relaxed cool individual is to be able to free yourself of constantly reaching inside your bag of tools.

Even the tools are not tools. I’ll explain:

One of the things I teach to guys is the art of story telling. Now, two years ago, I probably would have thought that this is a great tool to have.

However, having the ability to tell stories in an interesting and captivating manner is not a tool.

It is forcing you to make a fundamental change in yourself. Once you learn how to tell a proper story and be interesting, you will have made a permanent change.

You are no longer reaching in your bag silently thinking to yourself, “Aha, I will pull out my tool of “Story telling” at this point in the pickup. It will be the equivalent of photon torpedoes and will weaken her deflector shields.”

No!

You just become a more interesting person who enjoys sharing a good story or two because you have internalized good story telling and now it has become second nature.

Again: This article is not about an opener, and it’s not about the words that you say when you approach a woman.

It’s about a STATE OF MIND. It is about a PARADIGM SHIFT.

It is about what Seth Parker talked about in his article “Confident Rapport.”

It is about what Woodhaven talked about in his natural game article.

It’s about a mentality to be able express oneself without pretense. You may even use some situational opener to open conversation. For the tenth time, the opener is not the point.

It’s also not about having cocky/funny as a tool.

You want to be confident and playful? Fine! Do so because you are a person who enjoys having a good time and one who enjoys teasing people. Don’t do it because it is a tool you pull out of your hidden bag.

I recall, many years ago, watching “The Lost Interview” with Bruce Lee where he talked about expressing oneself and the difficulty in doing so.

Bruce said, “It is easy to for me to put on a show and be flooded with a cocky feeling, and then feel pretty cool, or do some phony things and be blinded by it, or show you some fancy movement..... but to express oneself honestly, not lying to oneself, to express myself honestly......That, my friend, is very hard to do.”

I also recall not completely understanding what he was discussing the first time I heard this interview. He is very correct, however. It is easy to put on a fancy show and try to impress people, but to honestly express yourself is very difficult.

The chief goal of any self-help environment ought to be trying to get you to feel comfortable in your own skin and be at peace with yourself.

To genuinely feel and exude that is difficult.

To me, being able to express yourself without excuses is the ultimate state of alphaness.

Yet, what do you usually find in guys who are “Trying” to be alpha?

Firstly, let’s understand this: You have a lot of guys who are trying to prove that they are alpha. Well, if you are “Trying” to be it, then you really are not alpha.

I constantly run into such guys who are trying to be alpha: Their behaviors manifest themselves in two ways.

A. They act like jerks, they behave in a standoffish manner, they try to ignore people as though these people are beneath them, and they exude other similar pompous behavior.

This is obviously the behavior of an insecure person. If you are comfortable with yourself, you don’t need to mistreat someone to give yourself status. Isn’t funny to realize that in many cases overindulgence in arrogance is actually driven from insecurity?

B. They try to dominate every conversation. They must at all times be the center of attention.

This second category is really easy to notice. You can have a group of 5 guys talking and you’ll see one guy constantly cutting people off to interject his point of view and constantly striving to get attention.

If he is not interjecting to get his point in, he is drawing attention to himself through wisecracks or other juvenile behavior.

His starvation for other people’s attention becomes laughably obvious and after a while, it becomes annoying.

This also is deeply rooted in insecurity.

Thus, to be genuine and comfortable, you do not need to be a jerk, and nor do you need to be the center of attention every single minute. You can be in your space and if someone else has the floor, you can listen comfortably because you are secure in who you are.

You are not there to prove anything. You can enjoy someone else’s words because you are actually listening to that person speak, and not worrying about what you should say to garner attention back to yourself every step of the way.

Whether you consider yourself a novice in meeting women or somewhat experienced, you should always keep this ideal in mind.

Not being comfortable with who you are manifests itself in so many ways.

It will drive you to try and impress people all the time.

It will drive you to continually search for more pickup lines.

It will drive you to many times behave like a pompous jackass.

It will drive you to constantly try and bring attention to yourself.

It will drive you to impress people by whom you have sitting next to you.

It will drive you to impress by telling people what kind of a cool car you have, what celeb you met, or how much money you just made.

It will drive you to be socially frightened.

It will drive you women away from you.

Thus, making “becoming comfortable with who you are,” is one of the top priorities.

While it is not the only priority, it should be one of the top messages emphasized by gurus giving dating advice in the community.

Instead, guys are chasing their own tails trying to learn more openers, more cute lines, more patterns, more negs, more cocky/funny, more, more, more............

When is it going to end???

It ends when you realize that probably the biggest reason you are at this cross road is because you are not comfortable with who you are.

It takes a bit of an ego check to admit this, but admitting is the first step to progress.

I’ll be honest with you: I have met nearly ALL of the gurus in the community and even a lot of them are not completely comfortable in their own skin either, despite their success.

It is not an easily achieved feat, but it is what your master goal should be.

People are not comfortable with themselves and they build layers to mask that discomfort. Instead of helping peel off the layers of façade, most people in the community advise people to hide under more layers.

I meet some strange cases. I meet people from the community who have built so many false layers of “Game” on themselves that I don’t know who the fuck I am talking to. One minute, they are trying to be alpha, and the next, they are running a routine on me, and then they are trying to qualify me.

I am not a guru and I am not some super monk sitting on top of the mountain being at one with the Universe. We are all at different levels of comfort. We are at different stages in our journey.

However, I want to make sure that people are focusing on the right issues and that this focus will help them achieve their desired states.

Once again, if someone is socially awkward then it is logical that he would seek to remedy that situation. However, to crawl out of the hole of social ineptness onto the plateau of a socially savvy person is not a tool. It is about that person making fundamental changes in himself.

Similarly, becoming comfortable and being able to exist and walk through life in a manner where you feel good about yourself, and in a manner where you feel the freedom to exist and express yourself is not a tool.

It is not a tactic!

It is not a routine!

It is a paradigm shift in your thinking, beliefs, ideals, and behavior!!

It is about a strong enough self-image where you don’t feel like you must carry your invisible bag of tools at all times or you are doomed.

IT IS ABOUT THE FREEDOM TO EXPRESS YOURSELF WITHOUT EXCUSES.

IT IS ABOUT THE FREEDOM TO EXIST.

IT IS ABOUT THE FREEDOM TO BE.

That, my fellow community folk, is attractive.

Cameron

Quelle: http://www.thundercatseductionlair.com/200...reedom_to_.html

[UnReal 3]

Sorry, mein Fehler, ich meinte den Text hier, wobei Freedom to Exist auch verdammt gut ist:

After all these discussions regarding Indirect vs. Direct, there still remains so much confusion.

I have seen a bunch of posts on mASF regarding what direct and indirect are. Mainly, however, I have seen lots of confusion. Furthermore, I find many guys constantly asking me for clarification as they are still unclear regarding the difference.

My goal with this new article is to explain the difference once and for all with depth and clarity so that everyone can understand and absorb the differences. So I have set out to write what should be the mother of all direct articles.

This article will be covered in 3 sections.

A. Behavioral difference between direct and indirect

B. Belief difference between direct and indirect

C. Rejection between direct and indirect

Each section will cover that particular aspect of the distinctions.

A. Behavioral differences between direct and indirect.

Advocators of a direct approach are proponents of not hiding their intentions. Simply put, it’s acceptable that a woman knows you are interested in her.

Advocators of indirect try to slide through the backdoor. At first, they make every attempt to NOT show interest in her, then they slowly begin to transition to showing a difference.

You have to discover what is right for you, and how you want to live your life. Direct is in no way just about the opener. It’s simply regarding the masking or unveiling of your intentions.

Over a year ago, Shark popularized the phrase “I like you and I want to get to know you better.” Then again, he likes to be ballsy and anything less is unacceptable to him.

With such a bold statement, there remains no doubt romantic interest is conveyed to the girl. Is it the only way? Of course not!

You can talk about anything in the world, but if you are conveying interest, you are behaving in a direct manner. I want you to think of James Bond, particularly Sean Connery’s Bond.

James Bond usually did not say the words, “I like you, and I want to get to know you better.” In fact, I don’t recall him saying those words ever, but the question is: Were his intentions clear?

Abso-fucking-lutely.

There was never any doubt for even a split second what his intentions were during his conversations with women, and the women damn well knew what he was after. Most of us know that 93% of communication is nonverbal. A sly smile, a glimmer in the eye, are manifestations of direct-behavior when they convey the man’s intention.

What is the man’s intention? That he is romantically interested in the woman.

Indirect behavioral model is based on hiding your true intentions until a later time where you feel you are now worthy of divulging your intentions. It’s essence is: “Hey, look, I am not hitting on you. I am not interested in you. I just want to get an opinion from you. That’s all. For all you know, I work for the Gallop poll company and I am conducting surveys tonight.” Every attempt is made to kill any sexuality so that there is no sexual pulse between you two.

That is the difference between the behavioral model of indirect vs direct. Do you hide your intentions or does the woman you are approaching clearly know you are hitting on her despite the subject matter?

Is there an absolute rule? No. There maybe instances where you can’t quite distinguish if the man next to the girl of your interest is her cousin, merely her friend or her boyfriend. You probably wouldn’t want to be overtly flirtatious when her fiancée is standing right there. The problem arises when guys write community doctrine that you must never show interest in her. For a long time, this was community doctrine, and it’s slowly starting to change.

If you read my posts from a year ago, you could see that I was just starting to experiment with this direct thing. Since then, I have had a chance to hang out with some other interesting guys in the community. Guys like Shark, Steve Piccus, Zan, and Stephane are all guys who prefer to not hide their intentions. While I don’t know if Zan would cold-approach a woman by saying the words “I like you” immediately, I do know that when he talks to a woman, there is absolutely no misunderstanding about his intentions.

She’d never ever think, “Oh, he wants to be just friends. We are going to knit together and play bingo.”

Steve Piccus operate on a whole different dynamic. He has no problems telling a girl what he seeks down to the graphic details. To him, too much time spent chatting about bullshit is just a waste of his time.

Shark assumes that he is the prince. He actually believes that it'd be a travesty for the girl to date someone else instead of him.

(I heard David X is pretty direct, but haven’t met the man.)

In the end, regardless of what any of these guys do, you have to decide how you want to behave in YOUR interactions with women. Do you want to show or hide your intentions?

------------------------------------------------------------

B. Belief different between direct and indirect

Direct vs. Indirect is also about the mentality and your mental frame. I have already said this numerous times but it does not hurt to occasionally repeat this statement.

You could talk about anything with the woman, but here is the difference:

The entire sequence of the transaction becomes different from the point of meeting that woman.

Now, we'll take it one step further!

What creates this huge difference?

***********A Direct Mentality is you working under the assumption that you are just as good as the girl, and perhaps even above her!***********

***********An indirect mentality has you working with the assumption that you are not good enough. She is above you and somehow you must prove that you are worthy.**********

There you have it gentlemen. Once and for all: There lies the difference. Simple, wasn’t it?

You can start the conversation with whatever you want. Let's say you talk about something very ordinary: A movie you just watched the day before!

Your behavior, body language, tonality, emotions, and beliefs should EXUDE that you feel you are just as good as she is. You don't have to say the words, "I am as good as you are." You just show it through non-verbal traits which account for 93% of communication I already mentioned.

Allow me to expand through examples in the following scenarios:

Scenario 1: You meet an average looking girl, (maybe 5-10 pounds overweight, but not fat!) and you feel that you are better looking than she is.

You feel that you are a very good looking man, and she is just average looking.

Do you have a problem going up to her and just talking to her in a very normal relaxed manner?

No! Most men would not! I want you to picture a good looking sharp dressed man in a club approaching a very average girl. You see him walk up to her and just introduce himself.

What do you think? You think to yourself that he has so much more value than he does not need to ask an opinion. She is in a league below him. (You probably have all this garbage about “Value” in your head, which I’ll address in a separate article.)

Next situation:

Scenario 2: You meet a very beautiful woman who is stunning!

Suddenly, you are nervous, you start making excuses as to why she may not go out with you, you start feeling the anxiety building. You “Don’t have enough Value”, you are not rich enough, you are not good looking enough and thus, you do not feel you can walk up and start the conversation in the same manner as you did with the last girl.

Why? Because you feel that you are not good enough!

If you were a King or a mythical Prince riding on a white horse, you would not have this anxiety. You are the fucking prince and this beautiful woman is your birth right! She is your birth right.

"There is no one else better for her," would be your line of thinking.

Are you starting to see the picture?

Many of the men giving PU advice have great pointers, but ultimately, many of them subconsciously possess the beliefs of Scenario B mentioned above.

They do not believe that the woman could like them unless they had a script with all sorts of lines written in it. They do not believe that a woman could like them unless they broke her down with one insult after another.

This is a form on insecurity, of course.

Everyone mentions the words "Do not supplicate" in the community.

For some reason, however, supplication has taken a financial meaning. Do not buy her drinks,

do not buy her gifts, do not pay for her dinner, do not give flowers, etc, etc, etc.........

I present to you that constantly trying to impress someone through your words, through machine-gunning one routine at her after another, is a non-fiscal form of supplication!

You are an entertainment monkey hoping to convince her to like you through the little games you learned on an Internet chat board. Think about this.

Here is the advice: “Hey guys, do not supplicate to women, don’t even buy her a cup of coffee, don’t tell her she looks nice, BUT please learn these little routines from anonymous people on the Internet, and repeat them verbatim, repeat other people’s stories, LIVE OTHER PEOPLE’S LIVES so that she may actually like you.”

You gotta be kidding me.

The counterargument is that beautiful women are approached by men all the time, and hence, they are sick of it. Like many of you, this is what I was taught when I first came to the community about 4 years ago. It was all over these ASF Boards at the time. It still is today! (It’s just that there is also an opposing voice today to give you a choice and more options.)

At that time, I bought this argument. It made sense. I was not good at cold-approaching women and this seemed to explain why my approaches were not up to par.

Like most of you, I was told, “You see that pretty girl? You cannot approach her in a normal manner. She has already been hit on by 50 men today. You’ll be the 51st man of the day. Why should she go out with you? Why should she choose you? Why?”

Yes, attractive women are approached all the time.

They are approached all the time...............BY GEEKS and Insecure men!

They are not approached often by cool, relaxed, secure, confident men!

Most of the men approaching do not possess the attributes of a confident man who is comfortable in his own skin, and lives a strong reality.

Looking back at it, I think to myself about what a loser mentality this was: To think that you are just like the other 50 guys who approached her. Hey, you are just the next guy in line. What a pathetic frame that was to have. You are just like the rest of the sheep in the herd. You are no different than the 50 guys before you.

In retrospect, it’s so obvious to see the dismalness of it, but sometimes when you are in the middle of it, it’s hard to step outside and see it with an objective view.

It has taken me 4-5 years to break out of that mentality, and now, I am on a mission to bring the distinction it to others.

You may view these women as being above you because of bad experiences in the past.

However, I want you to unequivocally know and understand that when you stop believing that these women are above you, you will have automatically transitioned to a direct belief! You will not have a choice about it. You can’t complain about it, you can’t go to the police. It will just happen, and there ain’t a damn thing you can do about it. [And that’s a good thing.]

You can call it whatever you want. Call it, “Being the Prize” belief system. The semantics are not as important as the internal belief system. It’s a belief system where you no longer feel that you have to prove yourself before you can ever show your interest in her.

When you see a woman on the street/ supermarket/ coffee shop/ bar/ restaurant/ nightclub, and you BELIEVE That she is not above you, and nor is she any better than you, you will have transformed yourself into the direct frame of mind.

When you truly believe that you are no less than her, it’s powerful. Trust me on this.

When you truly see yourself as an EQUAL, you will no longer feel the need to mask your intentions under veil of conducting surveys.

You don’t give a rat’s ass if she thinks David Bowie is hot and neither do I.

You can approach and talk about anything in the world and communicate to her that you are a sexual being. Harness the sexual energy, don’t kill it.

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C. Rejection handling between direct and indirect.

A secondary reason for the indirect mentality being prevalent: The fragile male Ego that cannot handle rejection.

Proponents of indirect instill that if by going indirect, you cannot possibly be sexually rejected. After all, if a man asked a woman for an opinion and chatted for 5 minutes, how could she possibly be rejecting him? There cannot possibly be a sexual rejection because the man never showed any romantic interest in her. (In fact, he showed no interest on any level, whatsoever.)

This is true. If you asked her some irrelevant opinion and conducted a CNN type survey. She cannot be sexually rejecting you.

Let’s shift to direct. A man shows interest in a woman! Even if the man was talking about the movie he watched last weekend, she’d know he was interested. Believe me, she’d know. His body language, tonality, facial expressions, the look in his eye would scream it out.

Again, remember the James Bond films. While he does not say “I like you,” there is never even a shadow of a doubt that he is interested in the woman. (Interest does not mean neediness by the way. That’s bullshit written by geeks. Always remember that.)

Thus, how do you deal with rejection if you are showing interest?

First, you must genuinely believe that it is not a reflection on you. What if her pet dog was run over by a car a few hours before you approached her? Maybe she just got fired from her job, or maybe she just got engaged to the man of her dreams! You cannot possibly know all this information. All you can remember is that it’s not a reflection on you. You are you and you have to be comfortable with that. You can try to “Fake it ‘til you make it” scheme, but in the end, you cannot lie to yourself. You must genuinely be comfortable enough with yourself that you do not believe it is a reflection on you.

At the end of the day, you look inside yourself and you find peace. If you stare inside yourself, and you look into an abyss, then you are in a world of hurt. This is when you must run around and get validation from drunk party chicks around closing time of the bar.

I’ll give one last analogy: Imagine if you walked up to Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, or Larry Bird and said, “I think you are a terrible basketball player. You just stink.”

Would they suddenly run around and try to get validation by asking the next guy, “Hey, do you think I am good? I feel rejected as a basketball player.” OR would they chuckle and just move on?

The same principle applies here. I won’t bullshit anyone either: It’s a journey. It’s not easy to obtain such a belief system. It takes work. A few individuals have this mentality when it comes to approaching women. The rest of us have to work at it.

You live in planet of 5 billion people in 200 different countries. You live on this relatively tiny planet in a gigantic galaxy which is part of inexplicably huge universe. Whether a girl is interested in your or not at the moment has no meaning. You are not curing cancer and you are not feeding hungry children. You are talking to one person. If she is not interested in going out with you, it is not that big of a deal. On the same token, if she gives you her number, and repeatedly begs for you to call her, it still isn’t that big of a deal.

Secondly, after all I have written, if you still are concerned about rejection, then I’d point to these things you have between your legs. They are called BALLS. You are a man about it. If she is not interested, she is not interested. Who cares. Move on!

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Summary:

I am not going to indicate a right or wrong in this post. You have to decide what your ultimate goal is. You must decide how you want to live your life. Do you want to restructure your path to one where your goal is living without fear, or are you comfortable being the guy who sneaks under the radar?

Lastly, I realize that anything I write will be scrutinized, because I am a commercial coach after all. You may never take a workshop in your life from anyone, and that’s fine too.

Regardless of what you decide to do, realize the paradigm you’re in, and restructure your path of self-discovery to be aligned with your ideals. Do you want a path where you are learning a skill-set of 121 steps to get a girl, or a path where you make a transformation as a person?

Does a path where you are putting a value on yourself appeal to you? I mean a path where you are not some inferior being who lives in fear, a path and paradigm shift where you continually grow so that you your ideals and beliefs are that of a person whose self-image is strong regardless of what the person next to you says.

That is the essence of direct. THAT SHOULD BE THE ESSENCE OF THE JOURNEY THROUGH THIS COMMUNITY.

For a further case study, get away from community people for a couple of weeks. Don’t just take my word for it. Do what I did: Find a few naturals who are extremely good at what they do and observe them. Don’t quiz them about it, but just watch the process. Believe it or not, there are guys who are so good that they pretty much blow away any community guy I have ever seen, including me obviously.

Watch these guys. They can’t explain what they do, but watch their belief system and see from what frame their actions are driven.

Decide for yourself on what is the right path for you to live your life.

Cameron

[Gast 11223344]

ich will dich nur schnell auf ein eventuelles problem hinweisen.

Da ich sinnlose Fehler und unnötige Fehlversuche vermeiden möchte, bin ich an euer Sicht der Dinge interessiert.

kann gut sein, dass eins deiner probleme perfektionismus heißt. das hindert uns (ich verwende mal die wir-form, weil es mich lange quälte) am handeln, weil wir ewig die vorraussetzungen schaffen bis etwas perfekt ist und wir so oft erst gar nicht beginnen. und so geht zeit ins land und möglichkeiten verstreichen. zudem sind wir selbst häufig mit ergebnissen unzufrieden, obwohl dazu gar kein grund besteht.

falls du denkst ich treff den nagel auf den kopf, dann füg das gleich ganz oben in die sticking point liste ein. in bezug auf frauen und inner game im allgemeinen ist das ein monstrum an sticking-point und ein echter bastard...leider da hängt nämlich noch ne ganze menge anderer balast dran.

[The Dude 0]

Da ich sinnlose Fehler und unnötige Fehlversuche vermeiden möchte, bin ich an euer Sicht der Dinge interessiert.

Bestimme Fehler muss man "leider" machen, damit man daraus lernt. Ist ein stumpfer Spruch, aber so ist es nun mal.

Ich teile aber Deine Sicht, dass es Frauen gibt, die auf indirekte Anmache stehen und andere, die man direkt "approachen" muss.

Ich habe allerdings noch kein Muster entdecken können. Da fehlt mir noch die Erfahrung.

Zuviel "indirect" kann Dich aber schnell als Labertasche oder Nice Guy aussehen lassen. Evtl. kann man am Kleidungstil erkennen, wie die Frau angesprochen werden will. Je aufreizender sie und die Umgebung, desto direkter. Je unscheinbarer die Lady und je alltäglicher die Umgebung desto indirekter (Close mit Tel.nummer) ist es meines Erachtens besser.

[UnReal 3]

Evtl. kann man am Kleidungstil erkennen, wie die Frau angesprochen werden will. Je aufreizender sie und die Umgebung, desto direkter. Je unscheinbarer die Lady und je alltäglicher die Umgebung desto indirekter (Close mit Tel.nummer) ist es meines Erachtens besser.

Stimmt nicht, ich hatte mit direct sowohl bei "Mauerblümchen" als auch bei aufgetakelten Frauen Erfolg.

[Hirtec 14]

Wichtig ist nicht, was du denkst für die Frau angemessen ist, sondern das, was DU WILLST...

[Magic Touch 7]

Also ich fasse meine Erfahrungen hier mal zusammen:

Direct:

+ Dickes DHV, denn man hebt sich von der Masse ab und kommt als jemand rüber der selbstbewusst ist und genau weiß was er will. Ein echter Alpha eben.

+ Situationsunabhängige Opener, universell anwendbar.

+ Sehr effizient, denn man erfährt sofort was Sache ist und vertrödelt so weniger Zeit in aussichtslosen Sets.

- Guter State erforderlich

- Man hebt das HB auf ein Podest, denn man zeigt ja, dass man was von ihr will. Dies wird aber durch den DHV und gutes Game wieder wettgemacht.

- Höheres Risiko einer direkten Abfuhr (Einem PUA sollte das aber egal sein)

Indirect / situational:

+ Besser für Anfänger geeignet, da auch mit AA möglich

+ Man hat sofort ein Thema, über das man sich unterhalten kann.

+ Man lässt HB quasi im Ungewissen ("Gefalle ich ihm nun oder gefalle ich ihm nicht?"). Dadurch gutes Push-Pull möglich.

+ Man kann in Ruhe seine Chancen abchecken und ggf. ejecten, wenn man keine Attraction aufbauen kann. 5 Ejects in Folge sind nunmal weniger hart fürs Ego als 5 Direct-Abfuhren nacheinander.

- Situationen, wo man situational öffnen kann gibt es nicht soooo oft, oder man erkennt sie erst dann, wenn es zu spät ist...

- Eventuell vertrödelt man zu viel Zeit in aussichtslosen Sets

Indirect / canned

+ Situationsunabhängige Opener, universell anwendbar.

+ Man hat gleich ein Gesprächsthema (HB: "Ganz klar, Männer lügen mehr")

- DLV: Jedes halbwegs intelligente HB merkt sofort, dass dieses Umfragedings nur ein Vorwand ist. Kann aber durch gutes Game kompensiert werden.

- Hauptsächlich Anfänger oder AFCs (die den Opener irgendwo bei Planetliebe aufgeschnappt haben), verwenden Canned Material. Wie ein HB darauf reagieren wird, das bereits 10 mal nach der Frage "Wer lügt mehr" einen notgeilen Wuschi an der Backe kleben hatte, kann man sich leicht ausmalen.

[Kal-El 16]

@Magic Touch

Anscheinend bist du auch im F.C Limiting Belief

- Guter State erforderlich

Das glaubst aber selber nicht..

Wenn ich nachdenke so muss ich sagen das ich fast nie High Energy Game,

Direct kannst auch mit einem normalen State reingehen,

Wenn du einen schlechten State hast kannst du ne Übung machen um aus deiner Comfort Zone zu kommen und dein State ist entsprechend gepusht und Voila „Direct Lets go“

(Beim Indirect brauchst du ja nicht Inner Game zum gamen deshalb sollte bei direct das Inner Game schon passen)

- Man hebt das HB auf ein Podest, denn man zeigt ja, dass man was von ihr will. Dies wird aber durch den DHV und gutes Game wieder wettgemacht.

Das glaubst aber selber nicht…

So wie du den Satz geschrieben hast wirst du DHV brauchen, ich nicht.

Das liegt am Mindset, ich gebe der Frau eine Möglichkeit mich kennen zu lernen, im Text vom Cameron wird das näher beschrieben.

+ Man lässt HB quasi im Ungewissen ("Gefalle ich ihm nun oder gefalle ich ihm nicht?"). Dadurch gutes Push-Pull möglich.

Das ist bei Direct genauso. Ich finde sie interessiert gehe also hin, this is all.

Du kannst jeder Zeit ne andere Frau neben ihr gamen und sie wieder gamen. (Push-Pull)

Ich kann ihr jeder Zeit meine Aufmerksamkeit wiederziehen und lasse sie im ungewissen ob so doch nicht meinen Anforderungen entspricht. (z.B wenn bei mir ne Frau nicht romantisch ist so wird sie keine MLTR egal wie geil höchstens FB)

Was würdet ihr einem PU-Beginner raten`?

Das hängt vom Ist-Zustand ab.

Mehr als 90% hat mit indirect angefangen. Das sagt wohl alles.

[The Dude 0]

Evtl. kann man am Kleidungstil erkennen, wie die Frau angesprochen werden will. Je aufreizender sie und die Umgebung, desto direkter. Je unscheinbarer die Lady und je alltäglicher die Umgebung desto indirekter (Close mit Tel.nummer) ist es meines Erachtens besser.

Stimmt nicht, ich hatte mit direct sowohl bei "Mauerblümchen" als auch bei aufgetakelten Frauen Erfolg.

Das ist ja tendenziell gemeint. Ausnahmen gibt es immer.

Mfg

[SlaD 65]

Also ich fasse meine Erfahrungen hier mal zusammen:

Direct:

+ Dickes DHV, denn man hebt sich von der Masse ab und kommt als jemand rüber der selbstbewusst ist und genau weiß was er will. Ein echter Alpha eben.

+ Situationsunabhängige Opener, universell anwendbar.

+ Sehr effizient, denn man erfährt sofort was Sache ist und vertrödelt so weniger Zeit in aussichtslosen Sets.

- Guter State erforderlich

- Man hebt das HB auf ein Podest, denn man zeigt ja, dass man was von ihr will. Dies wird aber durch den DHV und gutes Game wieder wettgemacht.

- Höheres Risiko einer direkten Abfuhr (Einem PUA sollte das aber egal sein)

Falsch kein dickes DHV, hübsche Frauen werden pro Abend von minimum 10 AFC's angesprochen

Besonders arrogante/hübsche Frauen mit überzogenem Selbstbewusstsein können es nicht ertragen ignoriert zu werden.

[Magic Touch 7]

Falsch kein dickes DHV, hübsche Frauen werden pro Abend von minimum 10 AFC's angesprochen

Aber nicht direct sondern mit irgendwelchen pseudooriginellen Openern aus Flirtratgebern, oder sie werden eingeladen.

Dass hübsche Frauen jeden Abend von 10 AFCs angesprochen werden, ist ein Gerücht. Ich habe Sets von HB 7-9 gesehen, die pro Abend genau ein mal approacht wurden, und zwar von mir.

AFCs stehen am Rand der Tanzfläche rum und glotzen, und wenn sie mal approachen, sind sie besoffen. Und direct trauen die sich erst recht nicht. Je hübscher das HB desto weniger.

[The Dude 0]

Also ich fasse meine Erfahrungen hier mal zusammen:

Direct:

+ Dickes DHV, denn man hebt sich von der Masse ab und kommt als jemand rüber der selbstbewusst ist und genau weiß was er will. Ein echter Alpha eben.

+ Situationsunabhängige Opener, universell anwendbar.

+ Sehr effizient, denn man erfährt sofort was Sache ist und vertrödelt so weniger Zeit in aussichtslosen Sets.

- Guter State erforderlich

- Man hebt das HB auf ein Podest, denn man zeigt ja, dass man was von ihr will. Dies wird aber durch den DHV und gutes Game wieder wettgemacht.

- Höheres Risiko einer direkten Abfuhr (Einem PUA sollte das aber egal sein)

Falsch kein dickes DHV, hübsche Frauen werden pro Abend von minimum 10 AFC's angesprochen

Besonders arrogante/hübsche Frauen mit überzogenem Selbstbewusstsein können es nicht ertragen ignoriert zu werden.

....und wie gehts dann richtig?

[Hirtec 14]

Falsch kein dickes DHV, hübsche Frauen werden pro Abend von minimum 10 AFC's angesprochen

Aber nicht direct sondern mit irgendwelchen pseudooriginellen Openern aus Flirtratgebern, oder sie werden eingeladen.

Dass hübsche Frauen jeden Abend von 10 AFCs angesprochen werden, ist ein Gerücht. Ich habe Sets von HB 7-9 gesehen, die pro Abend genau ein mal approacht wurden, und zwar von mir.

AFCs stehen am Rand der Tanzfläche rum und glotzen, und wenn sie mal approachen, sind sie besoffen. Und direct trauen die sich erst recht nicht. Je hübscher das HB desto weniger.

AMEN, nur die wenigsten Männer trauen sich überhaupt Frauen anzusprechen, und wenn, dann möglichst indirekt, um möglichen Körben aus dem Weg zu gehen um ihr Ego zu schüttzen...

[Sargy 0]

Hi ich bins Sargy und ich wollte mal meine Sicht der Dinge offenbaren.

Also ich vertrete voll und ganz die Indirekte-Methode ,da ich In Field viele gute Erfahrungen gemacht habe und an die Mystery-Methode glaube.

Er hat einfach die besten Theorien und Techniken .Ausserdem finde ich das man es nur voll uns ganz auskosten kann ,wenn man indirekt einsteigt und sich dann Step by Step ans Ziel heranarbeitet. Was ich auf keinen Fall behaupten möchte ist das die Direkte-Methode ein flopp sei oder nicht funktioniert.

Jeder sollte das passende Spiel für sich finden*

Sargy