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[Gast Kuddel]

This is not how a somewhat grown-up in Germany behaves. You do not start texting when handling personal issues, especially if you already know each other. Other points like the very fast "I love you" message have already been pointed out by others. So the first thing to say is: No, this is not normal for german men!

Which leads me to another question: Why do tend to find such men repeatedly? I think the solution lies within the answer to this question.

By the way and sorry for off-topic: This is how you learn how to have an argument:

[McMayhem 227]

This passage is key:

[...]

And I also apologized for my emotional reaction. But then he acted very strange… he was very sad, red, and could hardly talk… he said: “I had too much argument and fight in my last relationship, almost every day, and don’t want it again… it was too early for an argument… I don’t know if we can go on like before, etc… but the problem is that I am in love with you” well the only thing I could interpret from this was that his logic says no because he is afraid of arguments but his emotion says yes…

[...]

In a nutshell: you're acting overly emotional while this guy is acting completely rational. What you did is that you showed him a side of you that he clearly does not appreciate and his reaction is that he started having second thoughts about your relationship. Sorry if that disturbs you but again, this is completely rational and logical behaviour, especially for a guy who has made some bad experiences in the past. Actually you should be grateful that he cared enough for you to explain it in detail. My alternative reaction to your kind of emotional drama (or as Amorino named it: "shittesting") would likely have been a direct "Next!".

[Barristan the Bold 688]

Could you stop blaming the girl for the fact that her ex-boyfriend was a pussy? Holy crap!

Assuming that what she told us is true (and that's what you should always do when giving advice) her ex overreacted, albeit understandably given his last relationship, and repeatedly led her on to believe that he was ready to talk things out. He didn't follow up.

How the lot of you can shift the blame on her completely escapes me.

[DrButterface 25]

Could you stop blaming the girl for the fact that her ex-boyfriend was a pussy? Holy crap!

Assuming that what she told us is true (and that's what you should always do when giving advice) her ex overreacted, albeit understandably given his last relationship, and repeatedly led her on to believe that he was ready to talk things out. He didn't follow up.

How the lot of you can shift the blame on her completely escapes me.

I am totally with you.

And that shows, that not only the subject, but also the way this subject is being discussed on this forum shows the cultural characteristics/differences. The girl comes from a culture where conflict is being taken as a normal thing and you use conflict to overcome it and reconciliate. Here in Germany, conflict is a nuisance, and whoever causes conflict is a dramaqueen and has to be avoided.

What one culture may call sincerity and dedication, the other culture will call drama.

And what one culture calls rational, another culture may call personal weakness.

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

[McMayhem 227]

Could you stop blaming the girl for the fact that her ex-boyfriend was a pussy? Holy crap!

Assuming that what she told us is true (and that's what you should always do when giving advice) her ex overreacted, albeit understandably given his last relationship, and repeatedly led her on to believe that he was ready to talk things out. He didn't follow up.

How the lot of you can shift the blame on her completely escapes me.

I am totally with you.

And that shows, that not only the subject, but also the way this subject is being discussed on this forum shows the cultural characteristics/differences. The girl comes from a culture where conflict is being taken as a normal thing and you use conflict to overcome it and reconciliate. Here in Germany, conflict is a nuisance, and whoever causes conflict is a dramaqueen and has to be avoided.

What one culture may call sincerity and dedication, the other culture will call drama.

And what one culture calls rational, another culture may call personal weakness.

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Btw, she told us in her previous post, that she is from Iran, not exactly a country where, as you put it, conflicts are being discussed freely and openly.

Juni 8, 2014 bearbeitet von McMayhem

[Geschmunzelt 4380]

And that shows, that not only the subject, but also the way this subject is being discussed on this forum shows the cultural characteristics/differences. The girl comes from a culture where conflict is being taken as a normal thing and you use conflict to overcome it and reconciliate. Here in Germany, conflict is a nuisance, and whoever causes conflict is a dramaqueen and has to be avoided.

I appreciate your insight (which I think has a lot to it), but however, with regard to the case at hand, I think everything comes down to the issues the guy brought with him.

[Barristan the Bold 688]

Could you stop blaming the girl for the fact that her ex-boyfriend was a pussy? Holy crap!

Assuming that what she told us is true (and that's what you should always do when giving advice) her ex overreacted, albeit understandably given his last relationship, and repeatedly led her on to believe that he was ready to talk things out. He didn't follow up.

How the lot of you can shift the blame on her completely escapes me.

I am totally with you.

And that shows, that not only the subject, but also the way this subject is being discussed on this forum shows the cultural characteristics/differences. The girl comes from a culture where conflict is being taken as a normal thing and you use conflict to overcome it and reconciliate. Here in Germany, conflict is a nuisance, and whoever causes conflict is a dramaqueen and has to be avoided.

What one culture may call sincerity and dedication, the other culture will call drama.

And what one culture calls rational, another culture may call personal weakness.

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Never mind, but as she told us in her previous post, she is from Iran, not exactly a country where, as you put it, conflicts are being discussed freely and openly.

You're confusing politics with interpersonal relationships, you ignorant fuckwit.

[McMayhem 227]

It wasn't me who introduced the cultural background argument to the discussion, which I also believe is completely irrelevant and off-topic. Thus my remark about Iran.

Juni 8, 2014 bearbeitet von McMayhem

[DrButterface 25]

It wasn't me who introduced the cultural background argument to the discussion, which I also believe is completely irrelevant and off-topic. Thus my remark about Iran.

I think the cultural thing is necessary for this discussion.

However, your argument looked also to me as being a political and not a cultural one, and that's why I also didn't find it appropriate.

However, we all need to stay polite, there's no need to offend anyone in here.

Juni 8, 2014 bearbeitet von DrButterface

[Barristan the Bold 688]

It wasn't me who introduced the cultural background argument to the discussion, which I also believe is completely irrelevant and off-topic. Thus my remark about Iran.

She was asked to elaborate on her background. Your remark was unneeded and rude at best, racist at worst. Spare me your bullshit if you're not going to contribute anything remotely useful to the conversation.

[Am0rIn0 1046]

You didn't get the point. What she describes (but doesn't know) is that she shittests these nice guys with drama after she starts to smell their insecurity and weakness. Shittests are they way of women to get to know a man's real face if they smell that there is something wrong (incongruent). It is also the reason why she loses sexual interest into them after they fail her tests beacuse of having no balls.

Apart from her not telling us anything about losing sexual interest (did I miss that point?): No reason to be impolite. I thought about what you call shittest, but I think, if any, there would be rather testing and not shittesting occuring - at least that´s what she describes, and I suggest to work with that instead of interpreting until things appear to fit with pickup theory.

Moreover, I think you´re taking steps a bit too quickly here. We do not even know whether the point is her view on relationship dynamics (which may be culturally influenced) or her choosing guys that turn out to be too weak for her (which, on the other hand and theoretically, could also be a sign for her being a rude b+tch, of course).

Some often forget this, but this is a PU-Board, so there is nothing to interpret. She is not a cat, so she will justify the dropping attraction with a comfort reason because she doesnt know of how attraction switches work. Her last statement confirmed what i stated before. Attraction drop of that guy due to massive justification as reaction on that enviness drama.

[Ilovesummer 4]

@Kuddel: I burst into laughter with that clip... British humor is the best humor! What makes me find these guys?! No clue! I hope it was just bad luck!

@McMayhem: I think you didn't get my point... people might think different...it might have been a big deal for him while it was not for me... but all I meant was with the fact that apparently he could not make up his mind... He did not know if he should stay with me but he could not break up either! This was my problem that I cannot understand! This is what I call weakness! And this is what I call not being rational... and your comment about Iran... Well basically I have no answer for that if you think I am a politician!!!

@Jagan H'ghar: Thanks... but basically there is no reason that i lie... nobody knows me here and i don't get anything of it at the end of the day!!

[McMayhem 227]

@ Jagan H'ghar: And you're are the one to decide what is a worthy contribution and what is not. THAT is what I would call a totalitarian mind. It's just so damn easy to call someone a racist if I don't agree with his views. If you really want to experience something typically German, this is!

Juni 8, 2014 bearbeitet von McMayhem

[Barristan the Bold 688]

@Kuddel: I burst into laughter with that clip... British humor is the best humor! What makes me find these guys?! No clue! I hope it was just bad luck!

@McMayhem: I think you didn't get my point... people might think different...it might have been a big deal for him while it was not for me... but all I meant was with the fact that apparently he could not make up his mind... He did not know if he should stay with me but he could not break up either! This was my problem that I cannot understand! This is what I call weakness! And this is what I call not being rational... and your comment about Iran... Well basically I have no answer for that if you think I am a politician!!!

@Jagan H'ghar: Thanks... but basically there is no reason that i lie... nobody knows me here and i don't get anything of it at the end of the day!!

I never accused you of lying, read my posts.

@ Jagan H'ghar: And you're are the one to decide what is a worthy contribution and what is not. THAT is what I would call a totalitarian mind.

Oops, busted. I am actually a member of the Iranian government. Go and troll somewhere else before I nuke you.

[Geschmunzelt 4380]

this is a PU-Board, so there is nothing to interpret.

I´d really like to know how the second part of this sentence follows from the first... Anyway, I thought I was originally pointing out that we should not interpret what she wrote, so I´m not sure why you raise that point.

She is not a cat, so she will justify the dropping attraction with a comfort reason because she doesnt know of how attraction switches work. Her last statement confirmed what i stated before. Attraction drop of that guy due to massive justification as reaction on that enviness drama.

I´d rather say: Attraction drop due to male mediocracy (at best).

[OneWayTicket 547]

@jaqen,

by reaction emotional and blame others, you don't help the TE at all.

Call it rasicm but i wouldn't even call it a prejudice that germans tends to be rational while most of the mediteran and middle east cultures are stronger in emotional expressions. it's more like a cultural impact which, doesnt have to fit for every single individual of course.

However i would be very careful with blaming some one a rasicm in such a reflective forum like this.

@topic + TE

TE is testing the boys. this is obvious and she doesnt know that she is doing, cause its common sense for her. Paired with the different background its fairly hard for her to understand what happens in the mind of the guys.

Am0rln0 is completly right in this situation. TE is used to handle argues in an emotional way, most of the men in germany would tend to handle it very rational that is the source of the dispute.

This might sound like an insult but it isn't. It just names a way how you approach these disputes. this might be uncommon for most of the guys in germany.

however in this you will find a lot of guys who can read this situations and could handle you in situations like this. Am0rln0 would be one of those ;)

Juni 8, 2014 bearbeitet von DerGAUNER

[PippiLangstrumpf 1322]

Interesting.

Your impression is correct: disputes within the first few months of a relationship are viewed as very negative. The beginning of a relationship should be about sex and having a fun time together. Fights make people believe that they won't get along with a person for very long. Therefore, the men leave you.

I think that's the point.

I never even thought about that, but as you stated it, it seems quite obvious to me.

@Ilovesummer:

I believe that's a general german issue. Probably your guy was a bit overreacting because of his past experiences, but it's usually considered as a bad sign, if you quarrel too early. People tend to make more compromises to make each other happy and avoid fights.

@discussion:

"showing less emotions" does not equal "being rational".

Juni 8, 2014 bearbeitet von PippiLangstrumpf

[DrButterface 25]

@jaqen,

by reaction emotional and blame others, you don't help the TE at all.

Call it rasicm but i wouldn't even call it a prejudice that germans tends to be rational while most of the mediteran and middle east cultures are stronger in emotional expressions. it's more like a cultural impact which, doesnt have to fit for every single individual of course.

However i would be very careful with blaming some one a rasicm in such a reflective forum like this.

@topic + TE

TE is testing the boys. this is obvious and she doesnt know that she is doing, cause its common sense for her. Paired with the different background its fairly hard for her to understand what happens in the mind of the guys.

Am0rln0 is completly right in this situation. TE is used to handle argues in an emotional way, most of the men in germany would tend to handle it very rational that is the source of the dispute.

This might sound like an insult but it isn't. It just names a way how you approach these disputes. this might be uncommon for most of the guys in germany.

however in this you will find a lot of guys who can read this situations and could handle you in situations like this. Am0rln0 would be one of those ;)

Who are you, Am0rin0s smurfaccount?

[OneWayTicket 547]

@jaqen,

by reaction emotional and blame others, you don't help the TE at all.

Call it rasicm but i wouldn't even call it a prejudice that germans tends to be rational while most of the mediteran and middle east cultures are stronger in emotional expressions. it's more like a cultural impact which, doesnt have to fit for every single individual of course.

However i would be very careful with blaming some one a rasicm in such a reflective forum like this.

@topic + TE

TE is testing the boys. this is obvious and she doesnt know that she is doing, cause its common sense for her. Paired with the different background its fairly hard for her to understand what happens in the mind of the guys.

Am0rln0 is completly right in this situation. TE is used to handle argues in an emotional way, most of the men in germany would tend to handle it very rational that is the source of the dispute.

This might sound like an insult but it isn't. It just names a way how you approach these disputes. this might be uncommon for most of the guys in germany.

however in this you will find a lot of guys who can read this situations and could handle you in situations like this. Am0rln0 would be one of those ;)

Who are you, Am0rin0s smurfaccount?

Du spielst zu viel League of Legends...

[DrButterface 25]

Who are you, Am0rin0s smurfaccount?

Du spielst zu viel League of Legends...

Nie gesehen.

[1qa2ws3ed 232]

Voll peinlich hier.

[Ilovesummer 4]

@Jaqan: i know you didn't... i just wanted to ascertain everybody why they should assume i am telling the truth...

@DerGAUNER: i got it up to now that you guys consider an argument a drama and with the greatest respect i am happy that not everybody in this world think the same. I do not even see this as a cultural difference since i talked to my German girlfriends and they all even told me that i did not even need to apologize as it was very normal and i did not react bad to what happened... i think it is more a gender difference than a cultural one but anyhow i got this point and no discussion about that...

However i haven't got any answer for the second part... can anybody justify how this can be assumed as rational? If he thought this is drama and so on and he cannot deal with it, then he had to break up!! But he did not! Even when i tried to help him with it in case he is shy, he did not do it... he kept on texting and calling me that he wants to see me and talk to me...and then more interestingly never came and talked in the reality... or let's see how you call this person rational and me emotional in this: after all happened and as i said i did not reply him the last time... i saw him again as we work together and he asked me if i would go with him to the wedding of his best friend!!! So apparently it was not over for him...he just couldn't make any decision...like he didn't know himself what he wanted. And i answered NO as my LOGIC said it is already over... so if you say this guy has been rational and i am emotional i should really assume i come from a different planet...

About your theory of TE: seriously... no comment!!

Juni 8, 2014 bearbeitet von Ilovesummer

[Kninchen 1110]

Do you know about Pick Up, ilovesummer? I'm so curious as to why you came here of all forums, to discuss your question.

I personally somewhat expect guys to be the kind of weak and not able to follow through with their decisions that you described, and when they do I am positively surprised. So it may well be a German man thing, shying away from arguments in relationships.

On the other hand, if you don't find 10 man of this type in succession, I would still count it as a coincidence.

[experienced 21]

Hi Ilovesummer,

just peeped into this forum after some time of absence and found this interesting topic. You are IRANIAN? This was really astonishing me. When I read about your ideas of the significance in debating in relationship, I thought you came rather from an Eastern European country. East-Europeans - of course not everybody - often have a culture of argument - which is a way of showing one's honesty and involvement. (It is called "involvement style" by the way, you can find sources via google). Actually, one can get CLOSER to each other in a fight, by being honest and by showing one's emotions - and this is more emphasized in Eastern-European cultures - according to the literature and to my very small experience with Poles.

So my first idea was: "she must be Polish or Russian".

Now, one of my last "affairs" has been with an Iranian man - and concerning his - let us call it "vulnerability" - he was the most difficult person for me, even beating the Brits and the Scotsman who demanded a very indirect way of communication. Actually, Germans are, compared to other cultures, relatively blunt: you can tell them your (negative) opinion in a quite direct way, and they will still appreciate your honesty. Slavonic cultures are similar.

Now when I had so many problems with that Iranian guy who reacted over-sensitive to some very harmless questions and remarks (just smalltalk-like, e.g. about food in Iran), I thought this to be caused by "cultural differences" - it is always the first conclusion, isn't it. I found a Master thesis online about family life in Iran and there were some statements which said that family conflicts are usually NOT negotiated in an open way. Conflicts are rather seen as sth negative, according to this thesis which was written by an Iranian. This fitted to my Iranian guy and what I understood of his family patterns. Also to other stories I heard from another Iranian friend - not representative ok. So, I am still quite astonished and eager to hear your view of these matters.

So, regarding this, your attitude towards the function of arguments seems to be very contrary to the one I encountered and read about. How is this possible? Am I wrong? Do Iranians in fact have a culture of discussion in families and relationships?

Maybe you never had any relationship in Iran - which is possible, because in this country having sex "before marriage" is sanctioned, people live with their parents, cannot get a flat if they are not married etc. So maybe you came with some expectations to Germany which you now find not true?

As I told, I had relationships/or affairs with British/Scottish/Irishmen and they were super-sensitive compared to Germans (German men and women!). What is just a good advice to a German travelmate, was considered as "paternalising" by my Scottish companion.I would say that an average German man is sturdy enough for some tiny discussions, even in the beginning of a relationship. Because - you are right - one has to find a way together, so one has to negotiate. My question is rather: what did you do? how did you do it? Did you smash plates or hit the guy? Anything like this? Shouting should be still in the range of the acceptable, depending upon the reason. But certainly not for a discussion of where to go on holidays ....

I am quite curious about your answer.

Juni 9, 2014 bearbeitet von experienced

[cooperx 1374]

Geil! Jetzt kann ich mich nicht nur über schlechtes Deutsch, sondern auch über schlechtes Englisch im Forum aufregen.

#hater4life #grammarnazi

Dasselbe wollte ich auch grad schreiben haha Juni 9, 2014 bearbeitet von cooperx