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[Ilovesummer 4]

Hallo alles.

I hope it is not against the rules that i am writing in English...since my German is not really perfect...

Something is making my mind busy and that's why i just registered here to get some opinion.

I am an intrnational student studying and working in Germany since 2 years ago. I basically liked to see how German guys are in relationship and so I tried it. Well it has always been easy for me to find guys as mostly they find me very attractive. So I met a couple of guys in this period (all of them really nice people) and they all fell in love with me but we could never stay together after all. It is now getting a bit weird... i like many things in German guys and I really wanted to start a stable relationship with one as far as i am here. I thought in the beginning that language barrier would be a big problem but it was not... they could all speak English or they had enough patience with my German... however i found all of them very weak once it goes to arguments... all relationships include arguments or fights, esp in the beginning as you do not know the other person entirely. But it seems they cannot handel it at all or thy think it is too early to hve an argument... i mean now i am getting a bit disappointed and thinking mybe i should stop dating Germans... which is a shame because i see they are really good in many other stuff. I just wnted to see if the majority are like that or just those that i met!! Like the very recent one was a guy i was dating for about a month... it was going really great and obviously he fell in love with me very fast up to a point that he introduced me to his sister and brother, his parent, all his friends, he was visiting me every day, spending a lot of time with me, and even saying he loves me... but we had a big argument and he could never manage it... up to a point that we stopped seeing each other. I dont want to think i come from another planet but how can a guy just give up so fast and so stupid if he is this much in love? Just because of one argument... i mean sometimes i think i really cannot understand them? Don't Germans have big arguments in the beginning of their relationship? And if they have, can they fix it? Or is it just the girl's responsibility to fix it? I am just a bit confused and would be great if you could share your opinion...

Sorry again that i wrote in English...

[Individualchaotin 10234]

Your impression is correct: disputes within the first few months of a relationship are viewed as very negative. The beginning of a relationship should be about sex and having a fun time together. Fights make people believe that they won't get along with a person for very long. Therefore, the men leave you.

But in general: A man who seems to have no friends and hobbies and has time to chill with you daily, and a man who says "I love you" so quickly leads me to believe that you are making mistakes during your screening, before you even enter a relationship.

[endless enigma 6065]

try austrians.

austrians are, like, happy germans.

[Koma 232]

Perhaps its not them but you. Ever thought about that?

Also sample size

[Gast]

Es gibt 8 Mio. Pick-up Seiten auf Englisch.

[DrButterface 25]

This made me laugh - not because of you, but because it confirms all the prejudice I have against german relationships.

Strong personalities can quarrel and still reconciliate, if they like or love each other. I think it's also a cultural thing. However, I think that over here things are mostly handled in a certain phlegmatic way.

Get yourself a real man, there are a lot of foreigners here in Germany :)

Btw,, where are you from?

[SkullCrossbone 296]

I guess it's the same about german women ?! ..and therefore with the guys..

[Gast Kuddel]

It may help if you give us a hint, what you mean by having a "big" argument?

[Zig Ziglar 193]

@ilovesummer: First of all: You live in Germany for two years now, so you are supposed to speak german fluently. Secondly you are making incorrect assumptions about german guys. You can't generalize the behaviour of the german male world, just because you failed in your relationships. That's ridiculous and it's even more worse, that some people confirm your opinion.

It's your personality, which makes the men leave and nothing else.

[Am0rIn0 1046]

You must understand that majority of German men are trained from their early childhood that they have to say yes to everything a woman wants. Because our mainstream political correct feminism in Germany tells all women are angels and more valuable than men. Thats the moral law here. I bet they guys you dated didn't even try to get into your panties because they are very insecure and cover this with their kindness. Thats why you started to "debate", it is what we call a "shittest" and nice guys (most germans) fail them.

Juni 8, 2014 bearbeitet von Am0rIn0

[Ilovesummer 4]

Your impression is correct: disputes within the first few months of a relationship are viewed as very negative. The beginning of a relationship should be about sex and having a fun time together. Fights make people believe that they won't get along with a person for very long. Therefore, the men leave you.

But in general: A man who seems to have no friends and hobbies and has time to chill with you daily, and a man who says "I love you" so quickly leads me to believe that you are making mistakes during your screening, before you even enter a relationship.

Thanks for youranswer. I see your point. I just think in the beginning when we do not know each other, we do not have any idea what goes on the other person's nerve and we cannot still trust each other 100% there is a higher chance of arguments.

About the second point you made, well he had his friends and hobbies but he took me with him there... but he being so emotionally involved too quickly made me scared too!

@koma : i thought the same once but when i looked back at other relationships or dates i had which were with different nationalities, i never faced this problem...

@ zig ziglar well your answer was a bit harsh... but firstly you should not make any prejudgement... i do study and work in English so basically there was not a lot of time left for learning German... apart from that i do speak German but is a bit difficult to write in German, plus i was afraid i cannot express myself properly. Secondly, why do you think i post this? If you read completely you see that i have a question! It was not a statement... i said i dont know if they are all like that or jut those that i met... generalization would be the last thing i would do... finally i didnt even mention that they left me! It was your interpretation... well i dont want to say i am perfect but you dont even know me and my personality... i wonder how you could judge... anyhow thanks for your answer...

Juni 8, 2014 bearbeitet von Ilovesummer

[Nordlicht 186]

Don't Germans have big arguments in the beginning of their relationship?

Generally, no. Young, educated German people on average expect the start of a loving relationship to be all easy, fun, caring and without trouble. They expect that both are wearing rose-tinted glasses, are willing to compromise to keep that illusion alive and that serious arguments only come up when the initial emotional rush starts to wear off and the mundane every day life takes over. Thus, by starting big arguments early in your relationships you create the expectation that things can only get worse. After all, when there are already big fights early on when everything is supposed to be fun, new and exciting, the situation is bound to get really awful when things become more boring and people become more aware of each others flaws.

A second thing to consider is the nature of the argument. I don't know your cultural background, but obviously different cultures have different ways to argue. I personally know a South American woman who has similar problems. For her a big loud argument over a small issue is no thing and can quickly be reconciled. However, for many German guys this can feel overly extreme and overly confrontational. Cultures are different. And constant and loud arguing over small things is generally frowned upon in Germany, especially among young educated adults.

It would be helpful if you could go into more detail about the nature and topics of your arguments.

Juni 8, 2014 bearbeitet von Nordlicht

[endless enigma 6065]

hello threadstarter,

why dont you give us a little more background. where are you from, what was that argument about, how did it proceed, etc.

could be interesting. cross-culture difficulties always are.

[DrButterface 25]

Btw an alle, gibt es irgendwo nen richtigen Platz im Forum wo man zwischenkulturelle Unterschiede und Schwierigkeiten besprechen kann?

[Geschmunzelt 4380]

try austrians.

austrians are, like, happy germans.

True, I always feel a bit like a barbarian from the north next to them.

[Geschmunzelt 4380]

all relationships include arguments or fights,

True so far, but what puzzles me is what follows:

esp in the beginning as you do not know the other person entirely.

How´s that? To me, it seems quite counter-intuitive to try and get to know a person better by fighting with him or her. Is that some kind of "conscious strategy" or would you rather say you just end up arguing because you have different views on some matter? I´m not sure if I write this from an angle that would seem as typicial German to you, but even if it might help you understand the dynamics...

But it seems they cannot handel it at all or thy think it is too early to hve an argument...

...which would be two different hypotheses of which at least the first one would definitely not be typical for all German guys. Depending on where you are from (and depending on whether my cliché of that region is true ;) ) you might expect a different kind of reaction, which would mean you expect another way of arguing than Germans do...

but we had a big argument and he could never manage it... up to a point that we stopped seeing each other. I dont want to think i come from another planet but how can a guy just give up so fast and so stupid if he is this much in love?

The answer to that question might be quite easy: If he feels that you are either crazy or not interested, he´s going to save his energy and his heart. Both could (!) be the case if - from a German perspective - you overreact by far (which could feel totally different from your perspective!).

[mondmann 293]

You probably have some point that there are a lot of men in Germany that have the nice guy syndrom and are unable to handle arguments well.

My guess is that its partly a problem of german history.

Many childs had no fathers or fathers that were badly influenced of the war in the 1950tis and 1960tis

A missing good father role model fucks up young man probably more badly as about anything else.

This is given further from generation to generation, so even if the war is so long ago it has influence on average behaviour and rules today.

Another point is that aggression is seen as bad (partly because germany was the aggressor in the war) . since healthy aggression is absolutely

necessary in relationships many men get fucked up because they think that to be aggressiv is very bad in any situation and they have

to be nice all the time.

[Gast Kuddel]

The answer to that question might be quite easy: If he feels that you are either crazy or not interested, he´s going to save his energy and his heart. Both could (!) be the case if - from a German perspective - you overreact by far (which could feel totally different from your perspective!).

That's my suggestion, too!

But as Enigma also mentioned: A little more details about having a "big" argument could help.

[Lynx87 277]

I dont know, if it is typical German phenomina you are discribing. But I think, the more and less temperamental mentalities of different cultures are inducing different ideals, of what a healthy relationship should be like.

The endeavour for harmony, maybe as a garanty for a long termed and stabile relationship seems to be well marked in the German focus on relationships, while desire is less important.

The fears of loss - and fears in general - are very present in the German society.

People, esspecially the less self-esteemed german men strive for comfort at first and aren't able to handle the 'drama'.

In their glorified vision of the perfect relationship, there is no drama and no drama related fears of loss.

If a relationship is new, it's fragile, because it is easier to choose the exit for both protagonists.

And when the fear for an unfullfilled relationship in future will predominate the disire - the appetite of sharing sex, time and joy with a woman, the man may prefer exit (allthough they will regnet later) not argument -

maybe in Germany more offen than otherwhere, I guess.

Juni 8, 2014 bearbeitet von Lynx87

[Edgar von Schlecker 537]

Go to a lair in the near, there are real men around, they will show u how to rock.

[Geschmunzelt 4380]

Many childs had no fathers

I think we can safely set this explanation aside...;).

[Am0rIn0 1046]

all relationships include arguments or fights,

True so far, but what puzzles me is what follows:

esp in the beginning as you do not know the other person entirely.

How´s that? To me, it seems quite counter-intuitive to try and get to know a person better by fighting with him or her. Is that some kind of "conscious strategy" or would you rather say you just end up arguing because you have different views on some matter? I´m not sure if I write this from an angle that would seem as typicial German to you, but even if it might help you understand the dynamics...

But it seems they cannot handel it at all or thy think it is too early to hve an argument...

...which would be two different hypotheses of which at least the first one would definitely not be typical for all German guys. Depending on where you are from (and depending on whether my cliché of that region is true ;) ) you might expect a different kind of reaction, which would mean you expect another way of arguing than Germans do...

but we had a big argument and he could never manage it... up to a point that we stopped seeing each other. I dont want to think i come from another planet but how can a guy just give up so fast and so stupid if he is this much in love?

The answer to that question might be quite easy: If he feels that you are either crazy or not interested, he´s going to save his energy and his heart. Both could (!) be the case if - from a German perspective - you overreact by far (which could feel totally different from your perspective!).

You didn't get the point. What she describes (but doesn't know) is that she shittests these nice guys with drama after she starts to smell their insecurity and weakness. Shittests are they way of women to get to know a man's real face if they smell that there is something wrong (incongruent). It is also the reason why she loses sexual interest into them after they fail her tests beacuse of having no balls.

[Barristan the Bold 688]

Geil! Jetzt kann ich mich nicht nur über schlechtes Deutsch, sondern auch über schlechtes Englisch im Forum aufregen.

#hater4life #grammarnazi

[Geschmunzelt 4380]

You didn't get the point. What she describes (but doesn't know) is that she shittests these nice guys with drama after she starts to smell their insecurity and weakness. Shittests are they way of women to get to know a man's real face if they smell that there is something wrong (incongruent). It is also the reason why she loses sexual interest into them after they fail her tests beacuse of having no balls.

Apart from her not telling us anything about losing sexual interest (did I miss that point?): No reason to be impolite. I thought about what you call shittest, but I think, if any, there would be rather testing and not shittesting occuring - at least that´s what she describes, and I suggest to work with that instead of interpreting until things appear to fit with pickup theory.

Moreover, I think you´re taking steps a bit too quickly here. We do not even know whether the point is her view on relationship dynamics (which may be culturally influenced) or her choosing guys that turn out to be too weak for her (which, on the other hand and theoretically, could also be a sign for her being a rude b+tch, of course).

[Ilovesummer 4]

Ok I try to answer all questions together as apparently I cannot post more than once in an hour.

I am 26 and from Iran… When I got here about two years ago I met a guy who was half Italian half American… We got along very well and basically I did not have these kinds of problem with him at all… And before one makes any judgment, we had to break up for a reason which was way different from this… after him, I dated a few Germans and as they all shared the same thing (maybe accidently), they brought me to a point to post here…

It was not long since I was dating him but once we did, everything happened very fast and he even invited me to the wedding of his best friend!

It was too long that’s why I didn’t say… but here it is: I thought by mistake that he is seeing another girl or is with someone else at the same time. No I did not shout or sth like that. The only thing I did was that I left him at that moment as I assume it is better not to talk when I am angry… he texted me and explained everything that: yeah she is an ex and we are not together for over a year and so on but she keeps chasing me as she cannot let it go. And I texted him back that even if this is the truth, I see no reason that he did hide it. Anyhow the next day he texted me “I am very sad, please understand there is nothing there, if you want I can give you her number and you can talk to her” …with this message and when I thought more about the whole thing, I realized that he is telling the truth so I just called him and said I am not mad anymore but we need to talk. So he came to my place and for me the argument was over and I just wanted to tell him that if he shares these kinds of things it is better as I wont be shocked when I realize it. And I also apologized for my emotional reaction. But then he acted very strange… he was very sad, red, and could hardly talk… he said: “I had too much argument and fight in my last relationship, almost every day, and don’t want it again… it was too early for an argument… I don’t know if we can go on like before, etc… but the problem is that I am in love with you” well the only thing I could interpret from this was that his logic says no because he is afraid of arguments but his emotion says yes… it was hard for me to take it and I told him, if you really start doubting only after one argument, you don’t need to think more about it… and then he left and to me it was really over but here came the interesting part: he texted me after a few hours again saying that he is very sad with what happened, he thought I am the right girl for him and that I did not understand what he wanted to say and he wants to explain why he is afraid and so on… I told him ok if you think there is anything else you wanna say you can come and talk. Then he didn’t reply! and after a week he asked me if I have time so he comes and talks. I said yes, we arranged a day, but he didn’t come… he repeated this 3 times so I really felt sick of it and the last time he asked me if I have time to talk to him I did not reply anymore…it was already three weeks he was telling me he wants to talk but he never came… to me it sounded very weak that one needs such a long time to solve a problem or even talk about it… if he wanted to finish it, I already helped him with it, but why he texted me again and again… and if he wanted to go on, why he never came! It was like he cannot make up his mind… Well, to be honest it is a bit confusing…

So what I got from your answers, it is very negative if you have an argument with a German guy in the beginning of a relationship… this is a bit difficult because nobody guarantees when the first argument happens! I mean it depends on the situation and what happens… one might argue after a week, a month, or a year! You cannot anticipate it! I mean a girl would react at any time when she feels being cheated or fooled… it doesn’t matter when it happens. And I did not even react horrible like shouting or swearing or whatever!

@Am0rln0 did I get you right? you just tried to insult me?!

Sorry if it is too long, just anted to answer all questions

Juni 8, 2014 bearbeitet von Ilovesummer